Category: Jobs and Employment
What have your experiences with voc rehab been? What have been good and what have been bad? What would you like changed? What employment did they place you in? Thanks, doing some research.
Coming out of high school I filled out my application, and was called to a meeting.
Got college fees paid.
Decided to move to California, so applied when I arrived. Got college fees, books, and reader services paid.
I was on a scholarship, so kept my grades up, and Rehab continued to pay.
Out of college, didn't do much, but were open to supporting me if I found work.
Came back to Denver applied. Got equipment for working customer service, and each time I required upgrades and was gainfully employed and could prove my need, received them as well.
Lost the job due to lay off, got reader services until I was working again, and things I required for that.
After I was on my feet I know longer needed them, so we said thanks.
It works in my opinion if you can show honest need, and you are doing your part to be successful.
Wayne is right. the only time it truly works, is if everyone does their part to make things happen.
It seems to differ from state to state as well. Some states have more funding than others.
It does. I lived in New Jersey for 16 years and had horrible funding, and it is much better in Pennsylvania. They seemed to want me to be successful whereas New Jersey didn't care as much. They pretty much just gave me a short cane and said, you're on your own. They had someone come to the house to teach me to cook but after two months I never saw them again. However, I had an excellent computer teacher who taught me a lot about how to use Jaws and the Braille lite. Lol. I can't believe I still remember that thing.
My experiences weren't that bad either. What people need to realize is that Voc Rehab, at least in the states I know of, doesn't place people in jobs anymore. I've talked to a lot of older blind people, and their experience is/was very similar to mine. You do the work to find the job. You also have to have a backbone. They wanted me to get my masters, and I told them no. They couldn't force me into anything. I hear a lot of "VR forced me to....," and I say "No, you allowed them to....." Having said that, I have gone up the chain in the VR system twice. Once didn't work. The second time however, I got what I wanted. My advice for people who are working with VR is be an adult. I know that sounds nuts, but it's easy to get mad and mouth off and tell people where to go, but that's not the way to handle things. You want them working with you not against you.
Having said that, if you want to talk about horrible job placement people, I have stories. However, I don't count that as VR. VR contracted with them, but when I think of VR, I think of my counselor. Job placement people of any kind generally aren't helpful whether they're with VR or not. I'm just putting that out there as my experience.
In general, what you have to remember about voc rehab is that, in almost all cases, they're genuinely good people who want to help, they just don't have the resources or training to do so. Lack of funding is an obvious reason for this, as well as extreme caseloads that don't allow the counselors to keep up with things like the latest advancements in technology or what is actually beneficial for the blind. You would think, and in some people's cases, demand, that they know everything, but it won't happen. They work with people with other disabilities, too, and are not always well-versed in the specifics of each one.
You can make it all work in your favor, though. you have to know what you want before you ever meet with your counselor. That was the mistake I made: I assumed, perhaps naively, that because their title was counselor, they would be sympathetic and helpful. Truthfully, that's not their job at all, at least not in my experience. You have to go in there, state your case as professionally and respectfully as possible, and be absolutely firm in what you want and why. They're not there to help you choose a career path, as much as I wish they were. I think a lot of blind people could use that kind of direction. Not someone telling them what to do, not someone telling them what they think is profitable, but a job coach of sorts. Sometimes we don't know what we want or how to get it, and that's due to many factors. But, even if the voc rehab counselors wanted to, they couldn't do that, they don't have the time or probably the energy, either. They have to close a certain amount of cases per year, which is probably why so many horror stories abound about people being forced into jobs or colleges they want no part of. The only reason that happens, though, is because the people are unsure. A frustrated counselor, trying to meet their quota, might steer their clients into the paths that are deemed successful, AKA what has closed many cases in the past. But steering and forcing are two different things. Maybe the client never did say this isn't what they want, or maybe they didn't say it loudly or firmly enough. The point is, no one's holding a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to do anything.
In summary, they are not counselors in the traditional sense, at least in my experience. I often think that their job title should be changed to something else. An advisor, maybe? Their job is to be your line from point A to point B. You draw the map, they provide the tools you need to journey across that route you've created. As much as I truly wish they could, or did, provide a little more help beyond that at times, I know it's not possible for them. It's not their fault. People need to quit being so hard on them. They're people, too, and can only do so much.
I’d agree that both VR doesn’t have the same budgets in every state, and second they do not help find work.
You have to develop your own work, and they do pay for services to help you find work providing you can prove you are able and qualified to do the work you are wanting to do.
I never got any place by talking about anything. If I could prove my need and that I had a placement on proof of the placement via the personell, I received the equipment I required.
I personally feel it is shameful for states that allow the budgets for these services to drop below a level they cannot help, or allow the VR departments to miss use the funding without over sight.
Even recently, VR will help a blind person to get the things they require to survive successfully in your home, or living conditions, you just have to prove need, and that you are able to use the equipment you request.
I don’t suppose everyone had good experience with them, but that statement is probably true for most businesses.
One person might be able to receive better services than another due to being prepared, or lack of it, and realistic.
If you have an unrealistic goal and can’t support it you won’t receive funding for that goal. Prove you can do what you say you are wanting to do and have the background to support it, most likely if your state has the funding you’ll receive what you ask.
I read a very interesting article on this very issue today about voc rehab in GA and how they are placing too many people in the industries for the blind just to close cases fast. Not considering where the workers want to actually go.
I have to agree with posters 7 and 8, and I'm going to say this for what I think is the 3rd time, VR doesn't "Place" anyone anywhere. The client has to accept the position. You can say no. People don't which makes that their problem. As someone said, no one holds a gun to anyone's head and demands that they work at a certain place. I know you aren't a VR fan, and I understand that, but no one can force you into something you don't want to do.
Posters 7 and 8 bring up good points. At the time I stayed in New Jersey I didn't strongly stand up for what I wanted to do with my life, and that could have been another problem. It's hard to say though. Things have gone way better here in Pa.
I live in PA as well, so maybe it depends on which agency is handling your case. For example, my counselor faded into the background unless I told him exactly what I wanted and why. My friends who live in Philly tell me that their counselors are plain apathetic. Not returning calls, not listening to them at all, and so on. Having never met those counselors, I only have my friends' word to go on, and while I certainly wouldn't call them liars, I haven't seen the full picture, either.
The squeaky wheel gets the oil. I know it sounds crazy, but it's so true. I'm not talking about harassing people, but a once a week thing never hurts. This works in a lot of situations whether it be job hunting, VR counselor Etc. If you need something, be persistent and ask. I have heard of counselors who don't call back, and I think that's a shame, but you can't put all counselors in the same box. Can't you request a change of counselor?
In some cities there is only one serving the visually impaired, so this option of changing might not be available.
Well, all I can say is if you have a bad counselor, go over their head. Find out who their boss is. Don't be afraid to go up the chain.
My counsellor encourages me to stay on top of what needs to get done, because he has three counties to cover which involves a lot of clients. He tries to keep up but it helps when the clients remind him, and he understands we don't do it to bbe annoying. I'm sure they are not all that flexible, but it's worth a try anyway.
VR is as good is the effort you put in. If you go knowing your rights and what you want, you will get very far.
I agree with the previous post. It's definitely your effort, but that's how it is with most parts of peoples' lives.
How is it with family involvement? Do many of you that seek these services have parents or others involved in your planning? Have parents ever not let you take control of your informed choice? If so how?
I personal was 18 at the time of my first involvement with them. Seems they are a professional agency and don't ask what your family thinks.
It was always "Mr. X, what can we help you with and why?"
You ask a question, so I am wondering how you feel about that? Was your question just opened ended, in that you want to know, or family involvement is something you understand they do?
I'd not think that be something thought about unless they were providing some home services, and in that regard they'd only need to know what you wanted to accomplish in your home.
I have noticed that others I have known have had involvement as far as family pushing them to go to certain centers or take certain jobs due to them not being able to speak up because of having to live at home for what ever reason.
People including family may encourage you to go to a center, go to college, etc., but you are the one who decides. These services are meant to help you succeed at what it is you want to do, not determine what you do with your life. Maybe some VR counsellors that do a bad job will think otherwise, but that is the conclusion I have come to. As long as you are an adult, you make the decisions for yourself based on what it is you want, and partially based on what others suggest.
I agree with post 22. My parents have been involved but NOT in the decision making process. They did go with me to 1 VR meeting, but they never pushed me to or away from anything. As I've said before, no one can force you to do anything. You are the one who makes the choice. Now, I've seen parents be much more assertive with other disabilities, but if the person is capable of making informed decisions, it's their choice.
I'm going to break some tragic news here. This may come as a shock so sit down first. Not everyone in life gets the job they want. I'll let that sink in a moment cuz I know I just shattered your vision of a perfect world where every three-year-old who wants to be president gets to be president, but that world is only in your head. Lots of people, blind and sighted, get stuck with jobs they don't want so that they can pay the bills. That is known as life. It sucks. Get over it.
Thanks you, Cody. I can't believe people think differently, especially men. Guys, it's our lot to work, and we work to die: deal.
That's why I do what I do so that at least in jobs people hate they get fair wages for a fair days work. I am lucky to be doing what I love doing.
No one should ever settle for something if its not really what they want to do. Fine, work at Walmart or where ever until you can be a lawyer, or carpenter, or what ever your dream job is, but don't settle for something and give up. You have your whole life ahead of you when you are young.
Okay, back to your question.
As far as I have been treated and seen VR doesn't except your parents, or families choices. In order to be a client you must be a legal adult, so right there tells you they aren't going to be considering your parents wishes.
That you have to do.
Don't let voc rehab talk you into something so they can close your case. Keep fighting for what you want to do with your life, whether its going to university or working in a trade.
When I was fresh out of highschool and going through college, I had great experiences with Vr. Texas has awesome Vr services, for college students IMHO.
I worked for our Division ofBlind services as both a Children's Caseworker and an VR Teacher but while I was very good at what I did, socialwork/VR is not the career path for me.
I have no earthly idea what is at this particular point. I am not good at sales, not techy enough to be a good geek, not confident or determined enough to be a lawyer, have no desire to be a teacher and sure as hell don't have any desire to go back to working in Rehab.
I applied for VR services a couple of years ago and had a vocational evaluation. When my VRC asked me what I wanted to do with the results, I said that I would really like to meet with other people with my degree of blindness who are doing similar work, perhaps doing some job shadowing and finding out what accommodations they use or how they deal with stuff like face-to-face interactions with customers, etc. She kept suggesting that I apply with the agency because they had a vR Teacher position open. Basically, she wasn't able to identify anyone who was for all intents and purposes totally blind doing the types of work in which I was interested. I had a couple of ideas (medical transcription and realtime transcription) and she shot both of them down. Her boss is my former boss so he's going to be a hard sell if I ever decide to push the issue.
Basically, if you are totally blind and want to go into teaching, counseling, social work, technology training, or law, you're going to get great help here. If you're reasonably intellegent and totally blind but don't want to do any of these things, they don't seem to have any ideas.
I think my biggest issue is confidence but it didn't help that my VRC couldn't point me toward any totally blind workers doing things other than rehab or the other stuff I listed.
As for Rehab workers, having been one myself, I can honestly say that the majority of them truly do have the best intentions. They're over worked, underfunded and waaaaaay unappreciated though and after a while that can take allot out of a person. Often times, I felt like little more than a glorified cheerleader for blindness and none of my clients were buying what I was selling. They wanted their site back and all the talking watches and skills training I could offer just wasn't going to cut it. Now if I were to go back to rehab, I feel I would be doing a disservice to my clients because honestly, I'd feel like I was blowing smoke up their asses. I can't in good conscience tell someone they're going to be able to do whatever it is they want to do when in fact, that simply isn't true. Seen any blind flight attendants lately? Waitresses? Retail clerks?
Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I wish there were more options other than fitting neatly into a box when it comes to Vr. As a young person, I had excelent services but as someone who's lived a bit of life now and truly experienced some practicle obsticles, not so much.
I feel your pain. Its like they want us all to fit into a certain category of employment typical blind person jobs, and if you don't fit them they shoot you down or don't care about helping you. I was lucky enough to get the work I have now on my own without them, but not everyone can do this. I was just very lucky.
Oh yeah, and let's not forget the government jobs they try to push on us where you never move up and they are non-competitive hiring.
I've never been pushed into anything like that. Again, you can always say no. No one can force you. I agree with poster 31. You can't just put blind people in a certain box and think that works because it doesn't. My counselor and I talked a lot when I was job hunting about career paths that she saw didn't work. She was never mean or rude to me. She just wanted me to know that lots of people still have issues with blindness, and no, you can't always get your dream job. There have been times when she wasn't so helpful. I've had a similar experience as poster 31 except I didn't have any experience so I struck out on my own as far as job hunting goes. After over a year of searching with very few calls for interviews, I heard about the IRS program at Lions World. I went, asked lots of questions, made sure I could move up within the organization, and went with it. However, I know that some people don't want to work for the IRS. I don't know what the answer is because I've seen how things really are in regard to people's opinion of blindness. Let's face it, there's more than 1 reason why 70 percent of disabled people are without jobs. I guess my response would be to keep trying. You may not ever land your dream job, but if you don't fight, you won't get anything.
One more thing and then I'm done. Not everyone likes the same things. Some people don't feel comfortable being a VR teacher or counselor. However, some people do. If you choose to go down a path because it's what interests you, that's your choice. I don't care if that's factory work, the vending program, the IRS...whatever, if it's what you want to do, no one has the right to judge you. I've seen a lot of blind people judge others on their career choice because it's "typical blind person work." All I have to say is how dare you tell me or anyone else what I or they need to do with their lives. People make choices, and we live with them individually so if my choice isn't what you'd pick, that's fine. I'm not you. In some ways, that's no different than VR trying to box people in. . My opinion is everyone has to start somewhere, and if a "typical blind person" job is what it takes to begin your journey to a career, have at it and good for you
For those who don't want "typical blind person" jobs, keep throwing things at the wall. Something will surely stick.
I have to agree with posts 24 and 25, but we have to keep in mind there's an agenda to this board topic. We're apparently putting VR into a box now. Talk about turning tables.
Okay, I understand.
You are researching to find someone that agrees with the thesus you have already decided on. If you get 10 I had no issues and you get one, half I had no issues but feel that, you jump on it.
Peace.
It is sad that people still feel the way they do about blind people today. You would think views would have changed by now it being the 21st century.
So, since this board is on VR, as of right now, I have plans to go to a university here in state after I graduate, but after a year, I want to transfer out of state. Can anyone explain to me how VR and all of that will work?
Usually they are very hard to get to let you go out of state. If there are schools in state you have to be prepared to justify to them why you want to go out of state from my understanding.
Pennsylvania OVR told me directly that if I went to school out of state, they would not pay for it. That also would have been the case if I put down my place of residence in New Jersey. So your best bet is to some how, if you can, get a place of residence in that state for when you can't stay on campus, and get your case transferred over to that state. Make sure you have a copy of your case too, if you can get it in case there is some sort of mix up.
So staying on campus wouldn't count as my residence? I'm just making sure I'm understanding correctly.
No. They will ask for another address in addition. My agency does not send their paperwork to my university address, but rather my address of residence. It could be different so double check.
I know my VR counselor said if I ever went out of state for school that they'd pay the amount of in-state tuition, but the rest I'd have to cover on my own. Basically, they'd pay approximately 1/3 of my out of state tuition expenses.
Yes I do agree that the opinion of blind people is really pathetic considering that it's the 21st century and also how good technology has gotten.
Here is how I'd do it. I'd learn where the VR was in that state I wanted to go to college in and I'd apply directly with them for support in that state. I would know how much it cost, and I would back that up with documents. I would say I was going to stay on campus and include these fees as well. In a nutshell, I'd have it all worked out with the college I wanted to attend and my acceptance letter and transferring grades when I applied for VR. This is how I did it. I did not ask the VR in the state I was in to pay for the college in the state I wish to go to. When you are ask, say you will be closing your case in the current state. If you know someone that lives in that state visit and get an in state ID. Now you live there. If not get one as soon as you arrive. You must be independent from parent support.
What I mean by that, is they cannot be claiming you on income taxes, because if they do you are a resident of that state. They can give you money or help you if they want, but not claim it.
How you make your self-supporting is that you use your social security income as your support money. If you do not have this apply in the state you wish to attend college. That looks good and the process won’t take long.
You’ll need to be able to travel about so know how you will do this. I personal was able to just go take a bus with directions to get to appointments, so wasn’t worried about that.
It can be done. You have nothing to lose by trying.
I forgot to say you should be able to do most of your stuff with the VR in that state by email, phone, and post. I'd start working on it soon as possible with the school you want first, or both at once, but you'll need to be excepted to the school before you have pull with VR.
Ok, I'll have to keep those things in mind, thanks.
Also, in most states, to be considered as a resident for in-state tuition purposes, you have to have lived in that state for a year as well, so you might go there and live for a year without going to school or you could go to school while living off campus and still pay out of state tuition for that year. I found out all of this when I researched moving out of state myself. I know that this is the case for North Carolina, Kentucky, and Texas, and I am pretty sure it is standard for most schools. I even had to show a lease showing that I had been in state living in an apartment or residence off campus before the college would even change my status from out of state to in state. I even showed them my in-state license, but it was not enough, because they wanted more proof that I had lived here for a year after moving from the other state I was in.
My experiences with Voc Rehab have been mixed. I signed up out of high school. I didn't ask for much during college. After my last job ended (it was a contract), I went in months before I knew it would end. I spoke with my counselor and explained that just sending out resume's wasn't working, and I needed a little extra help. He introduced me to the Business Outreach Specialist who was absolutely fabulous. The thing is, I went in there explaining that work wasn't an option. I had a couple interviews, then she suggested I try a Situational Work Assessment. I sort of frowned upon the idea, but then decided to try it. First, it was three months' experience. The employer got paid, so they weren't losing money. Just when I was on my last week of the trial, I got a job offer! I was about to go back to the Specialist and start from square one. The timing was excellent. If this job wouldn't have worked, I was ready to keep my options open. I explained that I would be willing to switch career fields if necessary. I think she apreciated that I was motivated, and flexible. So, for the most part, my experience was great!! I got along with the specialist, and she understood where I was coming from. We sort of worked together as a team, which was very helpful. I'm going on my second year of work, and I couldn't be happier that I have a job. If I have to, I would re-open my case. I live in CO, and wish every county had a Business Outreach Specialist. I think since I was motivated the agency was more willing to finance other training if necessary. Sometimes all it takes is a foot in the door. Unfortunately, like other posters have said, you're probably not gonna land your dream job in your first go-round with the agency. I have never figured out "blind industries". Why do states even have these agencies. IMHO, this money should be used to provide more job training in the "sighted" world. IMHO, this type of sheltered work is very outdated, and does nothing to imprve the perception that many potential employers have of the blind. I'm sorry to all those who've had horrible experiences. I really think more should be done to help the blind actually gain employment, even if that means helping them with internships ETC.
What job to you do, and yes I agree, sheltered work looks terrible on resumes, pretty much saying poor pitiful blind people of course they work at a blind only place. What is a situational work assesment? Could you explain how that works? Thanks so much. I was lucky enough to be able to find work on my own but I know for many that is not possible.
Okay, so I should have stated that I went in and explained that not working wasn't an option. I floated around lots of ideas, some of which had nothing to do with my degree. I would have taken a job with a hotel reservations agency if need be. At that point, the goal was just to land a job. I'm a Case Manager, and this type of work is generally pretty difficult to break into, considering the amount of driving time a lot of CM's have. My situational work assessment was reat, in that it allowed me to find out a lot about the agency, and the issues I might face should I get hired. I started out doing quality assurance work, but then got a small caseload about nine months in. Now I've taken on a lot more cases and I love it. For anyone considering this type of work, internships/volunteer work are absolutely vital. I know, it's not fair that a blind person might have to start out as an intern, when a sighted person might not, but that's an excellent way for a potential employer to get to know you. The business specialist didn't hand me the job, but we did work together to come up with a way to get more experience. In my case, it worked. I only wish I'd worked with the specialist earlier. For those in college, or around that age, if possible, get any work experience you can. One thing I've found with "blind work", is that individuals who work with the blind seem to sometimes have a hard time getting other jobs. In my oppinion, this has to do with the fact that blind work is often very specialized, and not all skills might be transferrable. this is precisely why I chose to not work with blind individuals. I realize that some blind people want to work with other blind people, but I knew this wasn't for me. If I were to need Voc Rehab in the future, I would hope my experience would be similar. I know for me, just sending out resumes wasn't working. These days, a lot of people land a job by who they know, so the fact that the business specialist had a lot of connections definitely didn't hurt. PM me with any questions you might have and I'll do my best to answer them.
About that states rule you need to live there for a year.
It is why I suggest getting your letter first, then applying for VR in that state. When they pay for fees the college will be less likely to stick you on rules.
Things can be gotten around. If you allow the VR to deal with the fees you do better.
For the previous poster who asked, a Situational Work Assessment is sort of like an internship. Voc rehab offers to pay an agency to help you land work experience. All technology-related costs related to the job were covered in my case, as was transportation. The idea is to see if a particular job might be right for you. I know a lot of sighted people who've had this sort of thing as part of the TANF requirements. I learned a lot, even in those first three months.
Does the TANF pay the company to let the sighted person work there? Pretty sad when we as blind people can't even find work without having someone pay to let us work there especially when its the 21st century.
I am not a rehabilitation or a social services expert, just a guy, but I think I know why they are reticent to pay for out of state. It makes sense: they get state money, so if you leave the state, their investment is not returned to the state you reside in. Remember they are there to turn weelfare into work, I can't explain it too much better than that. You talk about choices and all of that, but in reality it's about not being on the system anymore. And many say the government doesn't know how to budget like families. Well in this case they do.
I pay for damn near everything for the baby girl, well the wife sometimes says too much, but that is another matter I'll probably never change no matter how often I hear about it, but anyway: I don't pay for all them other birds, all her friends. Sure, if I'm taking them all out or something, then yes, but don't buy their shoes, or clothes, or their cell phone plan, or get them other things. That is for the baby girl because she's mine. Well the State of Ohio can't really be expected to pay for things going on in Hawaii, since Ohio doesn't collect any taxes from Hawaii, and can't be expected to pay for that. Where would they be expected to come up with the money for that? It's just a money thing, man. State money is just for that state. If I can understand that after this many beers, you can understand it sober straight. The social service types probably have raggedy-ass psychology babbly sounding words for it we can't make too much sense out of, but it basically means the same thing. They can't pay for it because it's not in their budget because they aren't getting money from the feds, or at least minimal amounts of it.
Hello:
So unfortunately for me my run with rehab here in the state of texas has been rather mediocre. However, with hat being said, I also realize some of that was my own fault and my own doing. When I started with rehab, I started really young with them, and because of that they kept telling me I should go to college and to the state training center. So of course being naive, I went with it. However, I never ended up finishing college, and I ended up somehow justifying a reason for me to go to lwsb. However, since I had no college degree I didn't qualify for the IRS program, so I tried to go with a computer course that I figured might get me some job placement or at least help in it. I ended up finding out that my field needed a lot of experience as well when finding jobs and these certifications I got really didn't help much. With that being said, I finally gave up in trying to find a decent job and went to a blind shelter, but when I finally got laid off from the place and they had already closed my case, they wouldn't open it again unless I had a job and needed equipment, or was looking for work, I felt that I didn't have enough experience obviously to ind work so I didn't know what to do and in some w ays still dont. I'm on the job hunt again right now and am applying to diferent jobs, but I will tell you job searching can be one of the most tiring and nerve racking things to do and with no rehab help, it's so much harder.
You should reread your post. They said they wouldn't help unless you were looking for a job? Ask them to get a job support service for you? That way you can get things while you are looking possible.
So, those computer certifications are basically useless? I thought of going to LWSB for that. That's why I responded in the other topic. I was under the impression that no matter what program you signed up for, they would help place you into a job. Is this not the case?
No, the only one where you are guaranteed a job is the IRS program. They did have career counselors while I was there but they didn't seem to be much help accept in placing you in your internship.
Hmmm. Ok. What about the certifications themselves? How useful are they? If they are useful, is there an easier way of obtaining them, say, online? I was looking into the networking one myself.
well, you can basically take these same certifications I took at any community college or career institute where information technology type stuff is taught. If you're going for the assistive technology course though that might be better through lwsb. As far as the courses I took, the only thing that made them different at lwsb than taking it at any other school is it was geared more for people witih vision loss and it was easier for me to get a reader to help me with my tests and test simulations.
I actually heard that Texas had a good DVr program. I think you're right in that so much of a person's voc experience has to do with their motivation. I can't believe they wanted you to have a job before your case is re-opened. For me, that was one of the worst parts of job hunting. You need experience, but you won't get any unless you're hired. That's why I stress the importance of any sort of internship. I know virtually nothing about the Lion's world programs, but certification, unless it's in a trade really doesn't do much these days, unless it's in conjunction with another degree. I think some rehab agencies work well with individuals if the person is a bit more "pushy" if you will. Not in a rude way, but I think assertiveness definitely helps.
Maybe I am just lucky, but I don't get why so many blind people depend so much on voc rehab to find them jobs. I just volunteered where I knew I would work well and worked my way up and started my own business without them. Others are better at it than others I guess.
For me, I live in a very small town so transportation is a big issue. I made the decision to go to Lions World for IRS training because it interested me. I wasn't forced into it. Plus, a guaranteed job was the icing on the cake if you will. I knew I needed something extra to make me more desirable as far as employers go. I've volunteered at places before, but depending on what kind of job you want, it doesn't always count as experience. A big example is if you're applying for state jobs even entry level. I'm not knocking volunteering. I'm just saying depending on where you live and what kind of job you want, it may not necessarily be the best way to go.
I agree that a lot of blind people depend on VR to find them employment, and for a couple months, I was one of them, but I realized you have to do it yourself. This whole thing about "VR forced me," is complete rubbish. I found out that what you put in will eventually be what you get out of it. It may not be right away, but eventually it'll happen.
I've been thinking about why blind people tend to depend on VR to find them a job. I know there's not just 1 clear-cut answer here, but I think a lot of it is due to the fact that blind people, including myself, are taken care of, and that doesn't have to mean someone waited on you hand and foot. Think about the degree that most VI teachers have. It's called Special Ed. Like it or not, we're special. We obviously require different materials and technology for our education. Growing up, we don't fight for that. It's given to us without question. Even in college, depending on how good your disability services are, you may not have much trouble getting what you need. VR even pays for your education. Most of my sighted friends have gotten a couple scholarships, but nothing was totally paid for. Then, when we graduate, unless you read the signs and get experience/internships, most blind people are in trouble. First of all, the blindness turns off a lot of employers. Then you have the inexperience to add to that. I thought I was going to get my masters and then my PHD, but things change.
I'm not saying everyone does this. Some people volunteer or help out on campus, and that is some experience, but like I've said before, volunteering doesn't always mean a lot to employers. I'm just being honest.
I personally think that it should be a requirement for blind people to get a job while they're in school in return for VR paying for everything. That way, you get experience. Of course, this is ideal thinking I know, but it would be better than seeing almost all my friends come out of college with little to no work experience.
I remember being really frustrated while job hunting because the job interviews I got weren't for anything good, and the interviews were worse. That was hard for me personally. I knew of course that I wouldn't ace my first interview, but when people ask you yes or no questions, you know you're not getting anything. So then I went back and tried to find out what I was qualified for, and basically, my answer was "Not much."
I want to say something now. I'm not lumping everyone into 1 box. I know people have different experiences. Some are good. Some not so much, but that's what I think. Being told you have to stand up for yourself is very different from actually doing it, and for me, there were times when I wasn't sure how to do it without hurting myself in the process. I think learning that comes easy for some and much harder for others. Again, it depends on your life experiences and it also depends on maturity. Standing up for yourself doesn't always mean ripping someone a new one. Sometimes that hurts more than it helps.
Maybe this message has been a bit scrambled, but I hope it made sense to someone.
I want to clarify a few things. First of all, I did almost all those things that I talked about in my last post. I wasn't trying to come off like I was perfect and everyone else was....whatever. I was just tossing an idea out there. Also, the ideas I tossed out there aren't meant to judge anyone. Personally, I feel like each individual has to live with their decisions. I've gotten frustrated at friends before because they were smart, but they didn't look for work. After a while, I realized that if they're happy, I should be happy for them. However, I will say that there's nothing worse than calling someone at the end of a long day of job hunting and hearing "Man! I'm so bored. There's nothing to do. I want to get out of this house," especially when that person is doing nothing to find a job. Once you start getting in the groove of job hunting, it's hard to sympathize with people who aren't looking. Maybe I'm mean and wrong, but it's me.
I would totally agree that volunteer work really should be tailored to the type of work you want to do. Especially in the Human Services field, it can be especially useful. For example, I volunteered for several years as a Crisis Line Hotline Advocate working with victims of domestic violence. I knew this would be a great way to get my foot in the door. AmeriCorps was another option I tried. It wasn't volunteer, I actually did get paid. It wasn't my dream job, but again, it was experience, and it really helped boost my resume. For me, DVR explained things to a potential employer that I could not, like hiring requirements, technology and things like that. Plus, they helped me tailor a resume that highlighted my skills, not my blindness. I think a lot of regular work -placement agencies just don't know how to deal with the disabled population. Plus, when I went to a "regular" placement agency, I just got a referral to my local DVR anyway. I think a lot of my success had to do with the staff I worked with.
That's what I don't get. Why should we as blind people get free university education just because we are blind? I don't want it. Now military on the other hand deserve it. Blind people don't. We aren't entitled just because we are blind! That's the problem with society today, we all feel we are entitled to everything! Well I may be in debt, but at least I didn't get my country to pay for my education because I am blind!
Oh yeah, and I agree with the volunteer in school thing. Blind people should have to repay their country for taking free education. There should be a certain amount of hours of community service of the person's choice required each week.
My first really experience was actually through ameriCorps. so yeah, that can be some really useful volunteer stuff if you go through ameriCorps and they have all sorts of different things you can do, so that's the really neat thing about ameriCorps.
Post 32, noncompetitive placement (schedule a) is a decent way of getting into federal jobs IMO. The promotion potential is listed with each position...for example: gs-2210, 05-09 could be an IT job which is available to someone out of college and which can promote up to 09 given time. There are a number of special hiring authorities, so they aren't specifically targeting blindness/disability.
Post 57, research to see how the certification is viewed in the relevant industry. For example, I think ATI is a WSB-specific certification. Perhaps it's unknown in industry, and perhaps it has a great reputation. Research and find out, see if the school can get you in touch with graduates, etc. As for the Microsoft-specific certifications, they seem to have a decent reputation. One thing that the school provides is an accessible testing environment. Based on conversations with people who have tried to test for certifications and get accommodations, a ready-to-go environment could be a big plus. As far as jobs, as with anything, previous relevant experience will be beneficial. I think the most demanding certification offered by WSB is probably similar to an associate’s degree. You will have a lot of competition from people who have more education and/or more experience than you, but it will be possible given perseverance and a bit of luck.
Hey Ya'll! I've had terrible experiences with the state rehab in California, Illinois (didn't actually move there, went there for school) and I had an okay experience in Minnesota. I'll be moving to Texas in the next few months... currently, I'm trying to get my case in Minnesota closed so that I can open one in Dallas... I don't have a college degree- but at this point, I'm just looking for any type of job- I'll even take a costimer service rep at this point lol... I was going to school for radio broadcasting, but VOC rehab doesn't support that, not only that, but nothings accessible, and getting a job (let alone an internship) anywhere in radio is next to impossible nowadays.. I have had some awesome internship oppertunities though... but with all that said, I've came to the realization that being on air might not work out-- I mean realistically.... so I was wondering what type of jobs do they set you up with?? My caseworker in MN said that I can just sign up with the state that I'll be moving to and they'll help me find a job... is that right?? anyways good luck to those looking and I'm glad to know that the services in Texas are some-what deacent.... if anyone else has any more info on Texas's services, please let me know!
Thanks,
Amber
I was interested in the radio broadcasting field as well, but it seems that because of Sattelite radio and the use of the Internet, it is becoming a dying field and it is much harder to get a job as a broadcaster. Luckily I spoke with someone who had experience in the field before I went to college and continued towards that path, otherwise it would have probably been a struggle for me. Just imagine how much more difficult it will be for someone with that goal four or more years from now. it won't be impossible, but there will be limited options.
Yeah, definitely. Didn't they do away with FM radio completely in the UK? I would imagine we're not too far behind that. Besides, nowadays it's a pretty mindless job. You probably only have to click a few things on a computer and hope it doesn't crash. Not at all like the days when turntables and tape decks, which need constant attention and monitoring, were standard. If things were still like that today, I'd love to work in the radio business, not only because of my fascination with older technology, but, because, like I said, it would require focus and precision. Nowadays, radio broadcasting is for hobbyists more than anything. Just about anyone could set up a Shoutcast server, or actually, now that I think about it, i believe Icecast is more accessible now, but my point being that you can do that completely independently, while having utter control over when and what you play. That's not at all like being forced into playing the top 40 to idiots who don't have enough brain cells to expand their horizons beyond listening to the same songs over and over. I know not everyone is like that, but I honestly can't stand listening to the radio anymore for that reason. Anyway, it's not going to make you any money, but it's something fun to do on the side.
Yeah that's true... my friends and I have actually started a podcast, so I'm kind of familar with that.. we talk about and play what we want, and we interview whoever we can get lol! but yeah I agree.. I worked (interned) in top40 and it's changed, aside from everything being voicetracked, nowadays everything is computer based.. the live broadcasters are very far and few in-between... which is sad, because I've wanted to go into radio since I was 8 years old... in fact, my idol (Lisa Taylor) is still on the air- she's doing traffic and news, though... they've changed it so much, that they don't even have barely any talk breaks anymore, she barely gets any air time as it is... 30 seconds of traffic, and90 seconds of news every hour... anyways, if anyone has anymore info about Texas/their services (cause sending out my resume isn't doing shit) please let me know... and to the person who was talking about an agency-type program, what is that exactly? Rehab pays for you to go to an agency in your current state?? How does that work.. I know that Texas has someone who helps you find a job-- cause I have a friend (who has a disability) who is signed up with rehab in Texas and she said she's gotten a few jobs through them... so there's hope at least.... so yeah if anyone has anymore info, please let me know!
Thanks,
Amber
I wasn't in to DJ-ing that much for that reason. I mean if I really wanted to I could get the equipment and do that for parties and get paid a decent amount of money. I thought about it but it just sounded like more of a pain in the ass the more I thought. But for a while I wanted to work for one of those radio stations that talked about politics, or any sort of debating, and you know how people would call in and say what they thought. That sort of broadcasting.
Oh I see.. yeah I thought about that, too.. but I was like doesn't really make much sence imo to me anyways... Oh I see. that's cool... I wanted to take/play people's request(S) and air the calls. that sort of thing.. and work at a country station, but as I got older, I figured out that any station will do, cause you can't really be too picky, you kinda have to take what ya can get... so yeah. lol.
Yeah, I definitely would have been mor interested in the music side of things, too. Doing one of those talk shows would be intimidating. I'm not someone who can just come up with witty anecdotes in a second, especially in that kind of environment where the pressure is on to do that. I always envied people who could do that and be natural about it. Not obnoxious, like howard Stern, or Opie and Anthony, although all those guys do have quite a large fan base. Out of Philadelphia, there's a radio station called WMMR. it's a rock station. The morning show, Preston and Steve, is one such show that I've always liked and respected. They pull off being funny and talking about current events and all that with style. There was the time, a few years ago, where they had a whole discussion about how blind people wipe their asses, which would have been offensive if it had come from more obnoxious guys, but one of my friends actually called in and set them straight, because this woman had called in before and was going on and on about her elderly mother being blind and how she couldn't wipe, but it was more due to age than because she was blind.
oh wow... hmmm.. I do agree with you, I wouldn't be able to come up with such things like that.. I don't listen to talk radio much, and if I do it's usually Dr. Joy Brown (although she doesn't come in in my current area ) but I liked her show, cause I like to listen to that sort of thing... what should I do if?? types of programs... but wow that's interesting... My Dad always used to listen to Howard Stern driving us to school (yes, I know..... lol.) but yeah.. now I'm just looking for any job even if it's answering phones at Walmart... good luck with everyone trying to find jobs though... :) and same with me, when I was in school, I had a hell of a time getting services out-of-state... my state didn't understand the reasoning behind me wanting to go out of state, so I constently had to switch my case out there... but I couldn't become a resident because I had to live there for an entire year but I couldn't be there for school, I had to work or something to that effect, so I never actually became a resident of the out-of-state school.
Why is it so important to use voc rehab for college? Why not just get the pel grant and take out loans like everyone else? That's what I am doing and it works fine for me and I don't have to answer to anyone about my major or where I go to school like stupid voc rehab.
Well, maybe some people don't want to have debt hanging over their heads, especially if they're going to have trouble getting jobs once they graduate anyway. jobs don't come easily to anyone; for blind people, it's even harder. Being in debt is a major stressor for most people, especially when you have to be afraid of how you'll ever pay it off. I know you don't agree with state services and all that, but I'll be honest with you, and I don't care how it sounds. If you can avoid having that weight on your shoulders, then do it. That's what I would do, anyway. Some people are entitled to full scholarships, and while I'm fully aware that blind people shouldn't be entitled to anything just for being blind, the truth is, these things like voc rehab are in place, so why not take advantage of them?
Have you thought of those people who went to the schools where the tuition is much, much more expensive than the average schools? The Pell Grant may not be enough in a situation like that.
Well then that's their choice. Like I said if we as blind people want to be treated as equals, then we need to deal with debt and not expect to have someone else pay for the choices we made like which school to go to. The sad thing is a lot of blind people graduate college and never use their degrees, that the state paid for, so yes they should have the responsibility to pay for some of it at least.
I have never used Rehab to pay for services or any types of costs related to advanced education. Yet I believe that in the long run, even if the scholarly opportunity is never given a chance to be utilized through a blind person's ability to become a tax paying member of society, it is still better for them to have had it at no cost. One of the compelling motives behind gaining that level of scholastic achievement as a free, tantalizing tool in their box of resources is the hope that an employer will ultimately wish to hire them. Would you see a whole generation of blind graduates saddled with debt as well as unemployment? Self respect and rugged individualism can be worn down through a Sallie Mae representative's need to loan shark you out of much needed funds delegated to food, clothing or electricity.
While focusing on the subject of joblessness, I'm curious about something. We often hear about the 70 to 75 percent unemployment rate for the blind as a whole. What is the percentage for just totally blind unemployed folks by themselves? Does the fact of even just a little bit of usable or non-usable vision play a role in these demographic differences?
I've never had what I would consider a truly positive experience with Voc Rehab. I'm what you might call a Navy Brat, having a parent in the Navy (my dad) and therefore moved around the states the first thirteen years of my life. So I've experienced Voc Rehab and other blindness organizations in many parts of the country. After graduating from High School I was pressured into attending college. Don't get me wrong, I agree that a college degree is a worthy ambition, but the way a lot of voc rehab organizations preach it makes it sound like a cure-all and end-all for unemployment. Not that they ever say that of course but that is one thing I have observed over the years. One has to ask, however, how many blind people actually find jobs in their field of study after getting their degree. Then of course there's the "sell yourself" mentality. Again, this in itself is a good strategy and one any would-be job seeker should adopt. The problem is that many voc rehab agencies (and certainly every one I've ever worked with in the ten and more years I've been looking for work since graduating High School), preaches it in such a way that when a job application fails to pan out, regardless of the actual reasons, the blame is laid more on the shoulders of the applicant than the prospective employer. Your counselor will never come right out and say as much (unless of course they happen to be a total jerk), but they make it clear how they feel nonetheless. They'll say something along the lines of what you could have done better. Granted there may have been things you could have done better but that doesn't always help when you didn't even get a face-to-face interview to begin with, which is usually the case more often than not. My counselor also seemed to want me to apply for all these jobs for wich I had neither experience nor qualifications. Her rationale was that "we can help you learn." Maybe so, but that's always assuming an employer will overlook both my handicap and my complete lack of experience and qualification. I've only ever heardof employers overlooking a person's inexperience, and that was so they could avoid hiring a blind, even if experienced, individual.
Very well said BryanP. Since most in voc rehab have never so called walked in our shoes, they have no clue. And to the thing about the percentages. I have wondered that myself. I think they tend to lump visually impaired and totally blind together. They don't realize that it is much harder for a totally blind person to find work than a person with some usable vision.
That 70% number does get thrown around a lot, and I'm curious as to who did the study and what numbers. Not questioning that we have a serious problem, but it would be good to know who did the actual stats on this, and how recently.
True, I've heard that 70% figure since I was about 12. I wonder if there are more recent stats to back up this claim? I doubt anything can stay that static for a decade or more, because God only knows how long it was thrown around before I became aware of its existance.
Its probably much more now days due to the economy.
To the poster of this topic, ProudAFL Union girl, it is pretty funny that you went from having no major problems with voc rehab to calling them stupid. It's cool though. :D
Anyway, to echo Cody's unnecessarily rude comment that actually had little to do with this topic but became relevant later, people usually don't get their dream jobs, sighted, blind, eight-legged, or whatever your life condition may be. So I can kind of understand why some people get frustrated that voc rehab pushes them into college when they don't want to, but let's be real, college does give you a huge advantage. And if you're going in with the possibility of a free education, or even a discounted education, that's awesome. Is it not? Yes, I get it, college is not for everyone, but achieving that degree gives you a distinct advantage over those who did not, even if it is not nearly as valuable anymore as it used to be.
I digress. So about the whole state paying for your tuition thing that the poster of this topic is not so down with. Well, I agree with post 81 in that I don't see a reason not to take advantage of financial opportunities provided by the state. Sooooo many people are offered financial help for tons of different reasons, so don't pretend it's only blind people. And why the hell shouldn't someone take advantage of that opportunity? In a world with such tight economies, such competetiveness, this is going to save a lot of people in the long run. Just because college doesn't work out for all people, let alone all blind people, doesn't mean all blind people should get punished. Good for you ProudAFL chick for not allowing the government to pay for anything. I envy your fortune, honestly. But not everyone is so lucky. I can tell that you're glad you found your own job and all that, and that's really awesome, but understand that a lot of asspirations are quite unique, so a lot of people are going to take that leg up when they can. Like, hell yeah I'm going to take some money help if I need it. Education gets expensive. Living gets expensive. And when you dream big, that gets expensive too. And since I didn't want to just settle for some state school, even if I'd get it for free, I'm going to need financial support to pay off my debt for my private school tuition. So thank you voc rehab haha.
Back to the main topic, I personally hvae found them really helpful, but then I haven't really had to ask for much. Just JAWS installed at my internship, a laptop in high school, orientation to various places, and little things here and there like assistance with requesting LSAT accommidations. Once I start looking for a job, I'm sure I'll find I ask them a lot more and get more experience with their services, but as of yet, it's been great in Massachusetts.
Gotta love the entitlement mentality. Oh its there why not? Not me.
So with that attitude, is someone who gets money because they're a woman, to start a small business, having an entitlement mentality? Is someone who gets a grant for any number of reasons to go to college having an entitlement mentality?
Honestly, strictly from a taxpayer's perspective, I see it less as an entitlement and more of an investment: so someone is smart enough to take advantage of the situation, become a higher-paying taxpayer in society, and pay it back many times over to their local, state and federal governments via tax dollars.
Investment in education and taking advantage of such an investment is not an entitlement mentality.
I guess I just don't agree with the whole oh I'm blind so tax payers should pay for my education idea. I'd rather pay for it myself and have that feeling of accomplishment that I earned it and not have to answer to the government about my grades or what I choose to study.
Life is not as black and white as it might seem at certain points. There are always wonderful grey areas where truth and conviction are largely dependent upon a personal point of view. We as blind people are often incredibly judgmental when it comes to the actions of our peers. That trait should be recognized and eliminated from the way that we interact with each other. No one of us has a solution which can fit individual circumstances and life situations. Hence forth, let's try to let our personal preferences dictate our own actions while not hindering the ones with which we might have problems.
I thought about posting this next thought and query in a separate thread. Ultimately I decided against it simply because it seems somewhat related.
I want to get your feedback by asking a rather difficult and yet very important question. In a lot of respects, this is something which could apply to everyone. Yet I feel that it has special significance for those of us with visual impairments. Bear with me as I attempt to articulate it.
Obviously, we all know that the rate of joblessness is huge within our ranks. Contrary to the opinions of others and the personal evidence that I've seen, it is my belief that most people really do want to work and contribute something to their communities, states, nation and world. Yet within the context of today's day and age, society seems ignorant or unwilling to accept the skills and traits that many might have to offer. This might change in a future decade. Still, it represents the current paradigm. As a result of these notions, I would imagine that it's going to be rather difficult for a lot of people to find work.
My question to you all is this. What would leading a successful life look like to you if you were one of those that was never able to find work for yourself?
I know that the kneejerk reaction from everyone is to insist that they will not be one of those unfortunate souls. Many of you are still in your 20's and haven't been loosed upon the non-academic world. Obviously I am not suggesting that people give up on trying to better themselves. Luck and happiness can find you when you might least expect it on this journey to financial empowerment. However, society doesn't seem to want to meet the motivation and perseverance of a lot of the ones in our group with dedicated, satisfactory upward mobility.
Try to strip away the affirmative things that others have told you about sustained persistence and Do your best to really think about the question from a personal point of view.
Hmm, thought provoking indeed. I'll ponder on it before I make an attempt at a response however.
I am not sure how to answer that because I am lucky enough to have gotten where i am today successful, but if I hadn't gotten to this point I would feel like a failure, like I should have been at least as successful as my parents.
As far ad LSB and the IRS training, I researched that and found out something interesting. Out of a ton of people I talked to who went through it, no one is ever promoted. I find that sad.
Sometimes, in order to be quote on quote successful, you have to start somewhere that isn't viewed by you as a dream job or career. I know people who want to get work and be successful and there have been many different endings as a result. Some want a job for years, then they get it and find out they hate it. Others bust ass for years and retire happily. Even though they didn't like the job they stuck it out, because they knew it would pay off. I guess it depends on what you want in the long run, and what you are willing to do to get it.
The thing many of us in mid life working a endless corporate existence wants to know:
What is success?
I would consider myself to be successful if I were debt free / the wife's writing venture truly paid for, and I had my personal freedom back / we were moved back into the city. And then? I'd probably have my eye on the next ball, so who really knows what is successful? Do what you can with what you got, I say, give it a good run, and you'll be better off if you can shed any idealism possible.
I was hoping to tailor this question to those who might never find work or a means to create sustained traction in the employment world.
As for the entitlement mentality, I personally see it assomeone wo demands! discounts or whatever based on their handicap or whatever. As for the "dream job" I'm not even sure what my dream job would be. I just know that I'm not willing to settle for a job I hate, particularly if the pay won't compensate for the cut the government will make to my SSI. I gotta pay the bills after all. And contrary to what they tell you when they try to get you to apply for SSI, they do not in fact slowly reduce your benefits once you start working. I can say this from personal experience. It doesn't always matter that your job's pay alone might not be enough for you to pay the bills right away. Unfortunately most of the Joke Rehab counselors as I like to call them don't seem to realize that, so they push you to accept less than satisfactory jobs. Mine's even been trying to talk me out of college.
I was going to apply for rehab, but in the first meeting the counselor told me
that their goal was for me to get trained for a job and go to an independent
living center. She said that I need to make a living wage. I told her that I was in
the music field, and was doing various volunteer work to teach and stuff, and
she said rehab doesn't support that because music isn't a viable career. She was
mentioning something like answering phones or office work. Now understand I
have no problem with that, but it's just that I feel they try to make choices for
you. And i honestly I got a scholarship and my college tuition is pays for, and
I'm taking private flute lessons at the music school where I auditioned. I was
thinking more for my equipment more than anything else I don't need the
independent living centers and stuff. I have pretty decent equipment so I think I
can manage it. The thing that upsets me is that I've seen special ed teachers try
to talk people into various things. And I've seen a lot of blind people who don't
know what they want to do and who are not motivated. So I think they're used
to those kind of people. Not generalizing, just observing. I'd rather make my
own choices and find ways to support them rather than having agencies try to
fit me in the typical blind box. I don't just know what I want, I go for it. And
ever since I was 16 and moved out of my mom's, it was the best decisions I
ever took as things have panned out, even with obstacles. My point is that I am
responsible for my decisions and their outcomes.
Has anyone taken those VOC evals before about what your strengths/weakness's/aptitudes are? (these programs are not job placement programs) and if so what was your experience? and does VOC rehab actually use your results? for example, if someone wants to go back to school, or knows what their career choice is already, but the report says otherwise, would they support your decission or do they mainly/mostly go by the results of these things? Thanks to anyone who can answer this question!
those voc evals are simply to help the consumer along.
maybe the person doesn't really know what he or she wants to do, so the counselor may decide to use an evaluation as a tool.
it's meant to give the person options that they may not otherwise be aware of, and it might even help put their mind at ease, as job searching/dealing with voc rehab can sometimes seem quite the daunting task.
Are we talking about those career tests, where you have to answer a whole bunch of questions about stuff like whether you like working with your hands, and they word the same basic question 5 different ways?
If so, I've taken one. It confused me more than anything, but to each their own.
Hey ya'll! Thanks for responding! Yes, those ones! I'm about half way done with mine... and I was wondering what they actually do with these things... like if they actually use these results or is it up to the client what happends with the results? Just wondering how effective these things really are. kinda dumb if you ask me, but I guess that's what happends when your not in school, or your not working full time because you got layed off from your job. *sighs* I'd much rather be in school... so come February, I'll be heading back to school to actually get my degree.
that's also what happens if, as I said, a person doesn't have any idea what he or she wants to do. they have to start somewhere, after all.
I see, makes sence. Looks like everything turned out how it was supposed to or at least for me... I have friends who took them and it turns out that they couldn't be employable based on their results. But I guess since I'm looking at going back to school, and looking to get into the VOC Rehab field as a counsellor, they can't argue with that point.
cool. best of luck to you.
Thank you!! :) It's gonna be a long hall--as far as school goes, but I'm ready!!! This field needs people like me, because I'm sick and tired of the clients not being advicated for... unfortunately, I was one of them once... but now thank god I have an awesome councellor... but I haven't been so lucky in the past, and I don't want anyone else to go what I went through ever... it's terrible...
I'm curious. What do you get your degree in for that? Social work? Or do thay have a Voc Rehab degree itself?
And what test results would make one be considered unemployable? I mean, I can understand not having experience and needing an entry level job, but unless you live under a rock and have basic social skills and good grooming habits you would be "employable" on paper if nothing else.
Hey! Well, out in my state, they actually have a program that I'm looking at called rehab studies or whatever... and then you can get your masters degree in counselling with the VOC rehab option. I suppose you could get your degree in socialwork, but I've been down that road as a major, and none of the tracks or whatever really interested me... but that's another story for another topic lol. Kate: she just told me that she scored below average on almost everything, and they told her that she could be a braille proof reader, but otherwise that she couldn't be employable... I would hope to god that a person has good grooming habbits lol... but I don't know that's just what she told me... heck, the last one I had back in 2012 told me that I could not be a radio broadcaster because I didn't move my hands fast enough when they gave me the test where you had to take the pins out of the board or whatever lol.. but this one was all computer based---(everything was) which was interesting.. guess that's how they are nowadays, IDK... but anyways, looking forward to starting school again! it's gonna be a difficult long hall, and I just hope to god I don't have similar issues that I've had in the past, but I know at the end of all this, it'll be worth it!!
Has anyone had problems getting in to the vr program as a returning client and has anyone ever been denied? Also has the VR program ever lyed to you about things you have said or papers you have turned in?
sometimes, people may not realize they've received documents that were sent, or they get busy and forget to check for documents that were sent, or any number of other things. however, that's true with anything in life.
the truth is, it's the responsibility of the person receiving those services to keep on top of whoever they're receiving those services from.
it doesn't have to be done in a mean way, but they need to be reminded that you're there, that this or that thing needs to be done, ETC.
if the person receiving the services from them doesn't stay on top of them, it's almost a guarantee that their case will be sitting there collecting dust so to speak, rather than actively making progress, which is what happens when the squeaky wheel comes into play.
Wait wait, Chelsea. Let me see if I understand you: I'm not in the rehab industry, just a software engineer. Someone reports a problem to us, it gets forwarded as a ticket to me to fix. In the world I live in, it's not the customer's responsibility, it's mine. I own it. The ticket was sent, it was received, acknowledged, passed along, and now it's up to me to fix the problem.
Are you saying in rehab it's the customer's responsibility if the service provider loses documents? I'm sorry, I've only been in the work force longer than some of you been alive ... but but but ... that just doesn't make any sense, not rationally. I get a ticket / work order, I fix the problem or determine an intermediary solution or both. Someone sends me documents, now I'm responsible for them. Not the person who sent them.
Sorry if this just sounds like apologetics to me. Maybe it's working for the government or something, what do I know. But in the private sector, at least, the responsibility rests with the service provider, not the customer. Not once the problem has been reported, or once the documents have been sent, etc.
yes, when a person sends documents to any agency, it's theat person's responsibility to follow up with said agency to make sure they've received said documents.
as I'm sure you know, leo, businesses have so many things to do, that it's impossible for them to remember to contact each person individually, not to mention that it would be impossible for them to contact tons of people throughout the day, anyway.
and yes, it does make sense that that's how business is done.
I meant that, not theat, in my last post. sorry for the typo.
leo, here is an example of why I say what I do.
when you go to a doctor's office to have lab work done, the doctor/staff members inform you that it takes 7 to 10 days for the test results to come back.
are you seriously saying that you feel it's their responsibility to remember to call you back and report those results, even though they have tons of paperwork to do, tons of patients to see, unknown emergencies that come up, tons of mail to go through, ETC?
Hmmm, well I mean if they are asking for certain documents, and you promptly send them, you would hope that they would actually file them or whatever they have to do with them... but there are some folks who when you send them things, they lose or forget them, etc, etc, etc... depending on where you are employed, you might have up to 100 clients, so I'm sure that your not gonna remember 'oh this person needs this' or remember that you were supposed to call them back etc etc etc... I get that.. but it's true, if your not ontop of them, nothing will ever get done. that's why my rule of thumb is if I don't hear from them by like if I call them Monday, and I don't hear back by at least either Wednesday or Thursday, I'll definitely give them a call back... the more persistant you are, the better things will go.. I've never had them lye to me about paperwork not being recieved or not recieving any bennifits... so yes the moral of the story persistant people win.
Chelslicious since you feel or like tearing in to everything I say I did follow up on the documents promptly and they never got back to me for months and when they did, it was to say I never did them. When I told them to look again they said that they found them and then preceded telling me some lye that they would not take me because such and such person had told them that I had walked out which was never true and then when I called such and such person they said that they never said that. Therefore, when I preceded to go higher up the higher up said that they would look in to it. They were told that I had checked some other box and they said that they would call me back with progress but they never did and would not return my calls. Therefore, I went higher up and that person took their side and said that I had never done the application at all and there was nothing on me. Therefore, I have gone higher up and I did the application again. I am being discrete because you never know who reads the boards and who is on them. I have been dealing with this for over a year. Also yes, it is the doctor’s responsibility to call you. Yes, you should call them if you do not hear back but it is their responsibility to call you.
LeoGuardian I totally agree with everything you stated.
JerseyGirl1989 if they lose documents then that makes them look very irresponsible and disorganized.
This post is going to ramble a bit. I apologize in advance. There's too much emphasis on the behavior or expectations of clients in rehab agencies and advocacy groups. Certainly some accountability needs to be given some semblance of priority. Yet ultimately, our educational efforts and perseverance, while they may help give us a sense of power don't tend to be mirrored by the rest of the able bodied world's persons or resources. We often have this rather silly but understandable notion that if we work hard and show the sighted folks in our midst that we are capable examples of personal empowerment, they will open the floodgates of opportunity based on the showcasing of in your face intentionalism that they see coming from the blind. For the time being (and into the future that we will probably all know through the rest of our lives), this is not happening. Despite organized (and personal) efforts and activism, people still aren't being hired despite having more than adequate credentials and scholastic achievements. They are still often given short shrift in social situations. If one is lucky enough to land a minimalist's tenuous example of a job or career (mostly job), the powers that exist will almost always not allow them to advance to any higher position in the organization or business structure. Why do you think so many of the blind tend to go into a field where they are helping those same types of persons? If I had my way, people that would go into rehab would only be committed examples of worldly expertise. I think we should insist on changing the parameters for rehabilitation careers for sighted and blind people alike. All counselors must come to the table of this type of position as only a second career. They must have had a successful first career (yes I said career) before going back to school or showcasing some similar types of qualitative tools of education. They ought to have at least 10 to 20 years in this original first career before coming into these agency positions. I don't think this would make a whole lot of difference as it applies to the upward mobility of most of us. Still, it might be a start. There's too much of a sense of responsibility that is originally laid at the feet of the client or blind person. We need to push back on that front of follow through as it applies to the people that are supposed to provide a bit of a hand up to this often dismissed group.
darksword I totally agree with you.
Well Chelsea, if someone has become my responsibility it is up to me to follow up with that customer and see to it their needs were met, yes. But hey? What do I know? Maybe the private sector can follow up and return customer calls, but the taxpayer-sponsored government can't do that? We all have things that come up. Hence use one's Outlook Calendar, be an honorable service provider and return calls.
And as to documents, I'm not sending anyone documents that I have to babysit and make sure they knew to right-click the attachment, detach the document, and file it away. Jesus fuckin' Christ, my nieces and daughter knew how to detach files from email at age 11!
I guess I think about this stuff from the provider end. If someone wants to follow up with us, sure, but if I as the provider own the technical issue, it's my responsibility, not theirs. If I disappeared off the face of the earth, the employer would transfer my workload to someone else, and maybe it would get a little bit backed up, but yes. This is in fact how business is done, where it's the private sector, anyway.
I don't know about this blidn world sighted world BS, sounds more like apologizing for agencies on the public titty but that's just crazy! I'm willing to bet that people working for those places return calls, follow up with people, file their documents the way they're supposed to. The only way they didn't get the documents you emailed them is because the mail system didn't work, and that would have bounced a response to you.
If it were always the customer's responsibility, then why bother having a service provider of any kind? Why have a cable guy? It's theoretically the customer's responsibility for why the cable guy didn't show? I can't believe people actually think this. If a customer wants to follow up, that they're prerogative. But if part of my job is to follow up and see to it their product is functioning to specifications, that's my job, not theirs. Else, why are people paying for it if the provider can't even do that?
If someone's work is getting backed up, that's between them and the employer, and that's why you sometimes get called back by someone else rather than your original person, but you notice they have the original notes on the situation. So yeah, it's the provider's fault. I was once a front line tech support guy, gradutated to level 2, then became a software developer, and it's always the same. Us the provider, we're the ones responsible. You call an issue closed if the issue is resolved satisfactorily, or at worst, you can't contact the customer. But you're responsible to be doing the contacting. This is true across businesses. I don't know about government stuff much though, except for doing government contracts, and with those, we the providers were responsible to them like any other customer. This isn't about blind sighted parallel universe theory or behaviors, it's good common business sense.
Now I will say, if you the customer, aren't getting what you need, then yes you should call back. But that is because they didn't do what they were supposed to to begin with. I have to admit I've never seen this sort of rape apologetic "blame the customer" philosophy. And I bet the rehab people don't believe that either, as they wouldn't have anyone knocking at their door if they did.
LeoGuardian exactly.
I 100% agree with persiveer warrior here. It is our responcibility to get the things/services we need... I mean these people aren't mind readers for christ sake! lol they can't go 'oh, I know you needed such and such' without us telling such persons... lol.. but definitely if things aren't being done, then yes, go to the head of the agency, and if things aren't being done still, then IDK lol... keep fighting til you get what you need.... and hopefully, someone will listen and advicate for you on your behalf.
first, this has nothing to do with blindness, other than we're talking about voc rehab.
as far as I'm concerned, this is a matter of how we deal with people, including ourselves.
part of owning my stuff, as it were, is to take responsibility for my end of how things turn out, to the extent that I can.
this means that when I send someone documents, it's my responsibility, as the person who needs their help, to follow up with them and find out A, whether they've received them, and B, whether there's anything else they need from me.
would it be nice if they called? sure, but I don't, and will not, expect that they will, cause I'm not the only person who needs something from them.
the same applies for when I've been a consumer of voc rehab services.
I kept in touch with my counselor, not just cause it was my responsibility to do so, but also cause, if I wanted him to see me as someone credible, I needed to do my part to make that likely.
Has anyone ever been required by their Voke Rehab to do what no one else has been required to do, If you wound up having to do it, and if not, how you got around it? In addition, what are the requirements and procedures or where can I find them for each Voke Rehab because I do not find them on their state FL web site.
I did finally find the requirements and procedures for my state but I do still need the rest of my question answered please.
Can you clarify as to what you mean by has anyone VOC rehab made you do what no other person has done before? Would this be refurring to schools?Jobs?Evals? if your talking about schools, they do not support any private schools--I'm thinking because the cheeper the better... and+ private schools don't have any support what so ever, so I would not recommend them at all, to any blind person... very few have supportive services, and most of their disability services haven't a clue as to what they are doing lol and in my case, I never had anyone to advicate for me when it came to the disability office! (loooooooooooooong story) which would be for another topic lol. but yeah please clarify what you mean and I can try to help as best I can.
I know when I used services back late 80s early 90s, you could only go to accredited schools, and get degrees that would get you employable. No underwater basketweaving, religion, women's studies, etc. etc. no-name degrees that serve nothing.
And by that, of course, they just mean they won't pay for it. Doesn't mean you can't do those things, you just have to balls to the wall and find other support. I reiterate: They're not preventing you from doing anything: They're just stating what they will and won't pay for, in those days anyway, it was all up=front.
Look at it like this: The public entrusts the state to run its rehab agencies, with taxpayer dollars. So, they have to provide an accounting for how the public's money got spent, and since the rehavb services are designed to get people off the system and into the workforce, that's how the money is supposed to get spent. Of course there's always varying degrees of difference as to how that should be accomplished, and what do I know? I'm a software engineer for a living. I don't know anything useful about the intricacies of how social service systems work, although the Better Half has explained some, seeing as She is an educator for disadvantaged children of teen moms. But, it all comes down to money, and whether what you want fits in with how the public's interest is being served. Dunno if that answers your question or not, though.
JerseyGirl1989 Evals. If anyone needs more specifics, message me.
I've already have a degree so no interest in going back to school.
without you being specific, persevere warrior, it's hard to answer your question accurately.
however, there are probably certain evaluations that are required for certain degrees, or maybe there are certain evaluations that you're required to take due to being out of work for a certain amount of time.
I'm not exactly sure, but I hope that's at least somewhat helpful.
Perhaps if all of you listed what evals you had to take and why and or which ones you got out of or had no choice in taking? It would help me.
I'm sure that varies from state to state, not to mention the fact people probably don't remember specific names of the evaluations they had to take.
Also, they're doing evaluations to determine if you are a worthy investment for
a particular situation, intheir minds. That in no way determines whether you
should or shouldn't do something, only if the public's coffers will be spent
paying from it via rehab.
The only eval I remember was something about taking a few days off from work
to be answering questions about keeping house and then being tested for reading,
writing, and generally getting around the neighborhood. Some of their questions
were awkward,but yeah that's government. At 18 I didn't like it, naturally. What
young person does? Also seeing as I was moved out at the time and working. But
if you want the Man to pay for it, guessw you have to not only give a reason,
but prove your worthiness for their investment.
But again, that doesn't mean you can't go elsewhere if you want. They're not
deciding your fate, they're only deciding what they will or won't pay for. It's
just grubberment, not religion, although I tend to opt out of both as much as
is humanly possible. But opting out of both means no whining when they get something
and I don't. So in short, they're not telling you what to do, they're only telling
you what they can or can't justify spooning it up from the public trough in your
favor for.
When I went overseas, they had some kind of educator government speak about it,
but as I was financing it from other means, wasn't my problem, or theirs, actually.
Can you or anyone else expand on going else where? What other alternatives?
Yeah that's true. there are tons of evals for different things. it all depends on what your VOC counsellor is looking for... sometimes, they can help them in figuring out what your interested in, so that they can come up with certain jobs you might be interested in based on the eval results.. (hope this post made sence) I'm pretty tired, so if it didn't make sence, then I appoligize lol.. but I am thinking they only give these to people who aren't currently in school or already working successfully for the 90 day allotment period... maybe it's because your not in school, and you don't work, so this is their way of having statistical data to look at, and see what the person is interested based on the results from the evals... now, granted, you don't always have to take these recommendations, they are just suggestions.. so just because the eval assessment results might say you would be a good special education teacher, doesn't mean you have to do all that's required to become a Special Ed teacher, if you don't want too.. it's just results, on paper that helps them in either finding job placement of some kind, or a person going back to school.. but for some reason, it seems like the social services fields love to have stats and data to back things up.... which in a way makes sence... lol hope this made sence...
If you need grant or scholarship money, consider other sources in your field, or the financial aid office at the school you are looking to go to. Without knowing your area of study, I wouldn't know where to say. But surely you can seek outside the narrow blind-only situation. My sister was a classical music major, a very narrow field. But, if she couldn't get a classical music scholarship, she could at least apply fo r financial aid and do other things.
This is what I meant by looking elsewhere.
But then again, I am unashamedly a red-blooded American individualist.